Below is the Women’s Film Library Project’s full interview with cinematographer Marie Ilene from February 7, 2020.
Women’s Film Library Project (WFLP):
Was there a pivotal moment that [first] led you to film school? What [drew you] in that direction?
Marie Ilene (MI):
So I…went to a visual and performing arts high school. I wanted to be an actress, so I was kind of majoring in acting, and I always had this…inclination to direct all the other actors. …I had a teacher who, at one point just said ‘why don’t you try directing this scene as opposed to being in the scene, and you know, see how you like it.’ And, I’m like, ‘why would I want to do that?’ But he’s like, ‘just try it.’ And I did really like it, but I immediately realized that I saw the play like a movie. …I was directing the actors, but I wanted a close-up, you know. Like, as I was telling them – like doing their blocking and stuff like that – I was thinking in shots. I had sort of expressed that to my theatre teacher and he’s like, ‘well, that’s fine, if you were directing a movie.’ [When] You’re directing a play, you have to think about the whole stage picture. You can’t have close-ups and inserts and stuff. But he’s like, there are film schools so maybe you should start thinking about that. And then, I did really start thinking about it…it was in the late nineties. I was really into music videos, and, so I started thinking, ‘well, I guess I could make one of those. That would be cool.’ [So] that’s kind of how I transitioned from being on the stage to behind the camera.
WFLP:
That’s exciting. So have you always been more into the cinematography aspect than the directing or producing aspect of filmmaking?
MI:
I definitely was at first. I was like, ‘I just want to be an artist, and I just want to make pretty pictures.’ And then, you know, the real world happens. So…I sort of started directing by default, just because…on a lot of…small documentary projects, they kind of want somebody who does everything. When I graduated film school, I was like ‘I’m not an editor, I’m never going to edit anything, I hate editing.’ And then I shot a feature for another female director…and she’s like, ‘okay, so now you’re going to edit it, right?’ And I’m like, ‘oh, no no no. I don’t do that.’ But she’s like, ‘but I really liked working with you and I thought we had really good ideas together, so how about you just edit it?’ So I’m like, ‘well, I’ll give it a try.’ So…it just kind of evolved into doing more directing and doing more producing. And I happened to be good at it. I happened to be good at producing, which I didn’t think I would be because I do kind of fancy myself as an artist, and normally, the numbers and the scheduling and all that don’t mix with the artist, but somehow I have that part of the brain too.
WFLP:
So then would you say it’s more of a learning on the fly situation?
MI:
Yeah, definitely. …I did go back at one point and write a letter to one of my teachers in film school and just said, like, ‘I am so sorry that I didn’t pay attention because I never thought that I was going to need this. And you were right. I do need it.’
WFLP:
…Then what inspired you to join in this project?
MI:
…Dan came to me through a friend of mine from film school, actually. They said they were doing a documentary. It was going to be centered in the pinup community and about pinups. And I think they had thought of me because I was kind of already in the pinup scene. I was already dressing vintage. I wasn’t doing it every day at that point. That was just my going out attire. But every day at work, I was still like, ‘oh I’ve got to dress like one of the boys on set.’ …So immediately I was interested. …Basically, they just hired me to shoot one interview with a pretty prominent pinup girl, and I was kind of in love with the project right away because it was so interesting to me to meet a woman who…is fully in her femininity at all times. She just – she was so confident and so put together. And she just knew who she was as a woman, and was unapologetic about it. It’s like, ‘yeah, I don’t have to be one of the boys. I’m a woman and I’m beautiful, and I’m fragile and I’m feminine.’ And I’m like, ‘I need more of this in my life.’ …So I was attracted to the subject matter in more ways than one. …So I just told the director, ‘I’m really into this, and if you want me to be a part of this, I’m ready to jump on.’ And he’s like ‘please,’ [because] he was kind of lost. He didn’t really know what to do because he was realizing, like ‘I’m in a little bit over my head with this…this is about women.’ So, he seemed happy to have me kind of jump in and start taking on more. And at first I was like ‘I’m just the director of photography. I’m just going to be shooting it.’ No big deal. But very quickly, he started asking me to do more creative producing kind of stuff.
WFLP:
Well that’s exciting. So, then what was the most impactful moment of this whole project for you?
MI:
Oh, wow, that’s a good question. …But it’s probably…one of the contestants of the film actually, entered the contest and got to the finals three times. …So we had been following her for three years. So the third time, she’s competing and she won. …I’m back stage with her after shooting her quick response. It’s really loud. Everyone’s waiting to hug her and congratulate her, and I just felt like I had been on this journey with her from the very beginning, and I was able to just be proud of her and share in her journey. I had interviewed her at her house, so I had met her kid and her husband, so I…felt like I knew her as a person and…she…felt comfortable enough with me to break down in tears, and, tell me how she felt, and…I felt like I was on her team and like we were sisters, and we had kind of done it together even though, you know, she did it on her own. But because I had been following her, and had been there for her to lose – twice – and the first time she lost and she got back up and she did it again the next year, and I’m like ‘wow, that’s awesome.’ And then when she lost again, and went back for a third time, I was like ‘you are so brave.’ …When she won, it was like magic. …You couldn’t even script that. It was like magic. And…these women are so strong because I would never be able to take that kind of rejection over and over again. …It was just like a magical moment to be a part of that.
WFLP:
What…is the difference between…shooting documentary versus shooting a music video or shooting more fictional pieces?
MI:
It can be frustrating to do a documentary, especially one like this because there was so much that was event based. It’s not like I could set up lights. We were doing interviews. I could do a little bit of lighting. It was usually pretty fast, and I’m in someone’s apartment, so I don’t have full control. …When I’m shooting a fiction piece, I like to be meticulous. I like to work with the costume designer and the set designer and figure out every color that’s going to be in the frame and really make something that’s really meticulously planned, and every color, every stroke of light, everything is planned.
In a documentary, it’s the complete opposite. You show up and these girls are in beautiful dresses and we’ve got to try and make them look good in this dimly lit club, and I’m like, ‘the colors are so beautiful. How do I make these colors stand out?’ Or we’re in bright bright bright sunshine that’s directly overhead, so it’s like the worst shadows ever, and I’ve got to make these girls look glamorous. …With any documentary, but specifically with these girls, because I really wanted to serve them and highlight their beauty because they’re breathtaking, it really was a challenge to work with what we had. It’s like, ‘okay, let me rotate you around so at least the sun’s behind you and you’re a little backlit’ – just kind of figuring out what little things we could do to make it look good. And then my color timer – the gentleman who did the grading on the film – was so helpful. I was able to sit with him, and he was really patient with me when I’m like, ‘No no no, that dress – I was there, and that dress is green. And, you know, in here, it’s looking a little teal, and I want it emerald green because I know that dress.’ But, then we were able to make it happen.
WFLP:
…What are the rewards in documentary versus the rewards in like, a music video or…that type of fictional work?
MI:
…I think when you’re doing a fiction piece or a music video, your finished piece of work is kind of the reward itself because you had a vision in your head, or at least for me, the way I work, I have a very clear vision in my head, and…it never turns out exactly what my vision is, but it’s close, or it’s evolved and it’s different, and then I feel like I have this piece of art to show. …This was something that I created, and I was able to make every single little piece exactly how I wanted it. Within budget, you know. But with a documentary, I almost feel like the actual journey is more of the reward because you’re learning the whole time, and definitely with this piece – not every piece, but definitely with this piece – it was evolving the whole time. So, every new person I met, every new person we interviewed or new event that happened, it really did feel like a journey. And it was a several years’ journey, so, for me, that was the reward. And then seeing the finished product is like a Christmas present because you have no idea how it’s going to turn out. I have no idea what’s going to happen when I put this DVD in. …It’s almost a surprise when it’s a documentary.
WFLP:
…You mentioned earlier, trying to be a cinematographer and dressing like the men in the profession, and that’s a hot topic right now, all over the map. What are some of the major differences you see between the way that men and women [in the business] are treated on a day to day basis?
MI:
I’m in Los Angeles, so I’m a little more fortunate because I feel like people are a little more… aware here, especially now. But I definitely had many instances on sets that were…not appropriate. …When I was a camera assistant, I worked for DPs that would joke, like, ‘oh are you sure you can carry that?’,and it’s like, ‘yeah that’s my job.’ Or somebody from the grip or electric department would see me carrying mag cases and want to help, and I’m like, ‘no, you wouldn’t help a man carrying equipment.’ …My job is to carry this equipment, and I definitely had many instances where that happened.
So I did feel like I had to kind of dress like a boy to be tough, like no makeup on, I’m in jeans and a t-shirt just like you – kind of try and, not hide the fact that I’m a woman, but downplay it. …And I had sets that I walked off of because…I am not going to be spoken to that way, it’s just not cool. But I think, luckily, that boy’s club is fading. Really fast. At least here. …I’ve been fortunate enough to work on projects where it was an all female camera crew. …And I’m finding that more and more. Women, we like to hire each other. I’ve also worked with men that…love having female assistants and things like that because they’re just different. They’re clean and meticulous, and they keep everything going. But…I think for a long time, there were certain positions that women were expected to be in. So if I was on set, your immediate thought was that I was either hair and makeup, wardrobe, maybe art department. ‘Oh, oh, you’re in the camera department? Oh, oh, oh, that’s weird.’ I mean, gosh, when I was an electric – and I’ve been an electric on many things – people were like, what? That can’t be. ….I don’t know why they thought that. I really don’t.
But I’ve definitely seen that change a lot in the past couple years. Like I said, there are more and more women in the camera department. It’s not an assumption any more that if you’re a woman, you must be a hair and makeup girl. But you still have some old-school men who think it’s okay to make sexual comments to a woman just because she works for them. But luckily, I’ve had men that actually spoke up before I said something. …If I’m a first assistant and my second assistant hears the DP say something, I’ve had that guy say, ‘you know what, that’s actually not cool. You can’t say that to her,’ which I think is a big part of why it’s changing – because some men are feeling empowered to speak up and say, ‘you know what, that’s not cool.’
WFLP:
…More men should speak up.
MI:
It makes all the difference, because, if I say, ‘hey, I appreciate you not commenting on my appearance,’ they can say, ‘oh, she’s being stuck up, she’s being this, she’s being that.’ But if another dude says, ‘hey that’s not cool, bro.’ They have no excuse.
WFLP:
So then what is your favorite part about what you do?
MI:
…I guess the coolest part is that it’s something different almost every day. I just don’t think I could do the same thing every day. I’m just not that kind of person. And it’s a new challenge. …After I graduated film school, we were still shooting on film, …and my mindset was shooting on film. HD was just kind of becoming a professional standard at that point. And things have just changed so many times in, like fifteen years. We shifted to this, then we shifted to that. Now we’re at 4K. Now we’re above 4K. …It keeps changing. And the cameras keep changing. The equipment keeps changing. The lights keep changing. And I love learning, so, hey, an excuse to go to a class at Canon, I’m there. I’m constantly learning, and tackling a new challenge. Every day, and it’s something different.
WFLP:
…There’s kind of this movement of…the handheld, iPhone cinematographers – the movie-makers at home now. What do you think about those sorts of things?
MI:
That’s tough. …On one hand, I love that it’s more accessible. I didn’t have that when I was in high school. How cool would it have been if I could have made my own movie on my phone? …There was no way I could’ve …And I did make some little movies with my parents’ home camcorder, but there was no editing software that I had any kind of access to. So I think it’s really cool that people have access to that, but I do feel like, it can lower the standards for the art…because I see a lot of stuff that’s just an iPhone thing, and nobody put any intention or, planning into it. So that kind of breaks my heart a little bit. …It’s like, ‘okay, I worked really hard to make this really beautiful thing and you maybe just put your phone on a tripod and recorded it, and now we’re both competing on YouTube for views.’ Which is weird to me.
You know, I hope that in the long run, it makes people appreciate the art a little bit more because if you can plainly see the difference between art and function, then, hopefully, you appreciate the art a little bit more. So, I try to be positive about it.
WFLP:
…What is it like for you to be behind the camera every day, then? What does a typical shoot look like for you?
MI:
It’s not ever typical. …The projects I’ve been working on now – I’ve been working with labor and doing a lot of political or hot topic kind of stuff – I do a lot of stuff with working people and documenting what it’s like to be somebody who’s working in a full-time job in Los Angeles but still struggling. So a lot of what I’m doing now is very emotional. …I’m interviewing a nurse who works at the LA county hospital and she’s driving two hours to work every day because she’s got to live that far outside of the city to be able to afford working here, and she’s in danger of being attacked at work… That kind of stuff is what I’m hearing. So I feel very honored that people trust me to tell their stories and open up to me. And it’s a challenge. I never know what I’m walking into. But I feel really at home when I’m behind the camera. I kind of see the world like a movie – my memories play back to me with close-ups and medium shots and inserts and…slow motion. Even though I know it didn’t really happen that way, that’s how I see it. I kind of see the world through a camera lens, so when I can actually be behind the camera [lens], it’s like I’m at home.
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